Decided on a Camaro instead.

[Mayhem]

another car club site that helps organize events sometimes to check out all the hot local wheels!     that I'm pretty sure bcmazda3 hits up majority of the time?

I've never been.  Only mentioned it cuz I've seen posts about it here several times in the past & read about the one coming up I think... 20th or 21st? or something... I may be wrong on the date but soon.

[roflwaffle604]

http://www.revscene.net/forums/

[hatchattack3]

o icccccccccc

[Mayhem]

Sooo... problem after problem....

This is a problem seperate from the road debree issue entirely..

Recently I've been experiencing a very loud high pitch squeeling and rattling noise in the cabin of the Camaro...

It occurs in every gear... 1st through 6th.  But it occurs at a specific speed in each gear...   approximately 20-25 in 1st-2nd gear..... 45km in 3rd gear... 55km in 4th gear... 65km in 5th gear...

The sound is constant if you maintain that speed in that gear... and only goes away if you reduce speed or increase speed by about 5-10km below or above that range in that gear.... so... depending on your shift pattern.. you could experience the sound through every single gear while shifting up one after the other.

Its very distracting, and stressful.. not to mention embarassing since everyone in the street or in cars next to me can hear it too...... I've had lots of comments about it. Plus I worry it could distract me from sounds that might be more important to notice or take away from driving focus.

Anyways.... it's been in the shop for the past 2 days for this.... and the dealer claims that GM told them it is "normal" and "part of the design".... except that... I frequent the camaro 5 forum....  with.. over 25 thousand members.... there have been many problems with GFX but I have never heard of this problem... they mostly have to do with them ripping off while driving... due to improper installation and a poor original design (which was then redesigned and re-released) but recently now again the GFX kit is not available on the v8 models (mines the v8).

This option cost over 2,800.00  plus 800.00 to paint to match.

I find it hard to believe GM designed this thing to squeel and rattle.. and I find it hard to believe this is normal if I've never heard of it before.. even the dealership has never heard of it before and they have installed other GFX as well prior to mine.

They then proceeded to tell me that there is nothing they can do under warranty, and that the only thing they could think of as a solution would be to remove the ground effects, restore it to its original state.... (at my expense) and I would have to eat the cost of the ground effects altogether.. in addition to the costs of putting on the stock sideskirts/rear diffuser/front lip.  

What a joke!!!

So far I have had nothing but problem after problem with this car... and my experience has been complete hell !

[derrick]

Should have bought the MS3. I kid, I kid.

If it is happening at different speeds, I don't think it has anything to do with your kit.

Does it correspond with your RPM?

I think it is time to find a new dealership.

[abnormal3]

Should have bought the MS3. I kid, I kid.

If it is happening at different speeds, I don't think it has anything to do with your kit.

Does it correspond with your RPM?

I think it is time to find a new dealership.

Thats what I was wondering too ,but he'd be able to reproduce that without the car in motion,unless its tied to the rpm of the drive train/transmission.Putting it on a dyno (being as its stationary) and running it through the rpms would definitely rule out the ground effects IMO.

[Mayhem]

Should have bought the MS3. I kid, I kid.

If it is happening at different speeds, I don't think it has anything to do with your kit.

Does it correspond with your RPM?

I think it is time to find a new dealership.

I didn't think it was the same RPM because when I tested that... it seemed to vary....but the guy in the shop says, he was thinking it is about the same RPM range that it is occurring...   it happens a lot more during acceleration in gear and only recently started happening while coasting, or in neutral.

You know... I said the same thing to my GF... " I should have got the Mazda..."      Originally I got wigged out, and cancelled my Camaro order at one point... I wish I never took it back.     Shouldn't have gone through with it when I was not comfortable with the dealer to begin wtih.

Someone read my post on the camaro forum.. and is gonna give me a # for someone @ GM to talk to.. or something...
So I guess that may be the route I Have to go in addition to getting a different dealer...

The way things are going though... I'm not sure how much longer I can stomach this car !!


I'm still waiting on the rest of my parts or my custom hood that I ordered thru that other company too.. (Ordered 8 months ago) they were happy to charge my credit card but it took months of lies and struggling to get ahold of them... until they finally sent the "hood" out.. but none of the ducting was included nor was the latch that is needed to shut the hood when attatched.

Just having an all round bad experience.

If I end up on the hook for the useless hood, the damage from the road debree, and the ground effects problems.. I'm gonna be in it for over 10 grand.

[Mayhem]

The reason the tech gave for it being related to the ground effects...  (the rear portion in specific) he said something about the bezels in the back...

I guess they are thinking it has to do with vibrations causing it.

Someone on the camaro forum thought that might be accurate in that... the spacing between the bezels and the exhaust tips could be creating a whistle effect during points of vibration. Especially if the dealership failed to cut them to the correct length... as adjustments are required upon installation of the GFX kit.

It would certainly vibrate more during acceleration... and theres probably more vibration at certain speeds in each gear too.... so I kinda thought that was believable... altho the sound doesnt to me sound like its coming from the back.. I thought it was upfront or right underneath the driver area.

Additionally I never had this problem in the first 5,000km .... I had the GFX installed at the 5,000km service point and it has only happened after that time.. (It didn't begin right away) but yeah..  I'm at about 7,100km now

[Username]

Honestly, it's an American muscle car. I know you paid $50k for it, but at the end of the day it is what it is. It's not meant to be a Lexus and isolate you from noises and the outside world. It's meant to burn rubber, make raucous noises and go like hell.

Every car succumbs to squeals, squeaks and groans as they age. Ask some people here about the windshield squeak or the glovebox squeak. Mysterious noises that are difficult to rectify. Any noise, however, should not take away from your driving focus. FYI, hearing impaired individuals are allowed to drive and therefore, being able to hear is not required to be a safe driver as per our ministry.

Inevitably, it sounds like you are regretting your decision. Either find a new dealership, learn to live with the quirks or sell it.

  Kev

[derrick]

I am starting to think it has to do with the transmission. Which would help explain it happening at different speeds and during acceleration.

The kit theory sounds totally bogus to me. If things were flapping around you would hear a flapping noise, not a whistle.

If you think the space between the exhaust tips and the kit is in question, put something in there to see if that helps. Fold up some cardboard etc.

[dmogx]

the spacing between the bezels and the exhaust tips could be creating a whistle effect during points of vibration.

the whistles go WOOO WOOOOOOO!!

[Mayhem]

Have had our share of beaters in this house.. rattling windshields, glove boxes and everything else... doors... windows... cup holder trays that collapse and drop your drinks on your passenger.... I still get the occasional pleasure of "rolling up my window" rather than pressing a button...  and sometimes I have to press on the window at the same time with my elbow at a certain angle to get it to roll up.... and then wiggle it at the top to completely close it..slide my fingers out quick b4 they get squished and then press it into the track.... 

no noise I've had has been as bad as this noise... and I've never taken anything in for a noise... some of these vehicles have been as old as me... This car is a few months old... at 7,000km it still retains the new car smell... and should not have more rattling than a 10 yr old car.   and I'm not entirely sold on the GFX theory either... I got the car back and messed around some more... to me it really sounds like it's underneath.

My biggest worry was that it was mechanical..       after someone mentioned the RPM... checking again today.. it seems like approx 1500 RPM is the sweet spot. I don't really know why a cosmetic rattle would only occur in that range? and mostly during acceleration? but not at higher speeds..  with even more vibration? seems unusual.

I'll try stuffing something in the gaps in the gfx tomorrow and see if it changes anything. I'd rather it were related to the exhaust tips & bezels than something mechanical.

"American" muscle.. yes... noise... Yes please ! But... that noise should come in the form of a roar from the exhaust and the engine and be flattering.. not embarassing.. I guarantee this noise gets more attention from bypassers than my exhaust does... nobody buys muscle for an irritating whistle/rattle....

If it was desirable we'd be out buying an adapter to get our old school coffee kettle to blow a whistle in the cabin to show off the muscle? hehe  Even the tech guy agreed that he wouldn't be able to tolerate it & that he personally didn't think it was normal. (I'm not just being picky).

 burning rubber.... well... that's the image they "sell" but that's definately not what you buy if you ever want warranty work.

A member of my household is hearing impaired and drives, so I know all about hearing not being required... But not being able to hear.. and having a high pitch noise blaring in a hearing persons ears....... are no comparisson.

Regret? Well no one likes buying defective product. Or dealing with shady businesses.

Anyways.. on a positive note
I was contacted by someone who read my post on the camaro forum...Who agreed that it is not "normal" or acceptable.... n was given a # to call... so I guess they are going to try and help me out.. I probably should be switching dealers too. so hopefully things start lookin up.

[Mayhem]

Well it's been a while.. Finally figured out the problem.  I printed off the TSB that fit the description to a T.. which ended up being a defective exhaust system which effected early production v8 manual transmission camaro's between a certain VIN range. Found this on my own no thanks to the stupid dealership.

Brought the instructions on how to verify/diagnose the problem to the service manager at the dealership.. he tried to play it off as... my imagination, and blowing "normal" sounds out of proportion...  So he finally tells me after weeks of complaints (and months prior) to take him for a ride.. AGAIN (I have already proven this issue to them before). and then he's going on about how he's not going to do anything since he doesn't hear anything.. and i'm going to just have to deal with it.. and then it starts rattling like crazyyy... non stop... idle in neutral.. driving in 1st..2nd..3rd..4th..5th..6th... didn't matter.. just constant super loud resonance in the exhaust underneath.

So he's finally like "OH... WOW... I've never heard anything like that before.... WOW... thats terrible... yeah.. wow..."

The guy didn't even know how to open the door or move the seat... I'm sad that he's in charge of fixing the cars there.

After CLEARLY hearing the problem... as per my description, and matching the TSB... he tried to tell me.. "Well I still think it's something else.. I don't think what you are saying is accurate.. I think it is coming from the trunk."

So I was like... You're still not going to just check for this TSB problem which as you can see clearly includes my VIN # ? He is like "no.. I think the sound is more of a "resonance" whereas you see it as more of a rattle.... so I think it's different... and is in the trunk.

The method to diagnose this problem was to take a rubber mallet and tap the exhaust baffles in 4 key area's which I had pictures and diagrams as well as written instructions.... He refused and said, I'll set up some microphones and bring some technicians to test drive it and find the source... What an idiot. Even GM attatched an exhaust replacement TSB to my VIN # in the system.

Anyway, calls me the next day.. "So, I found out what the problem is.. It's your exhaust! So I've ordered a new exhaust for you."    *sigh*...    Then he went on to point out how I was still wrong anyways... and that apparently it is a completely seperate exhaust issue effecting the same VIN range, requiring the same replacement solution... But had no details as to what this mysterious "other kind of problem" was...   

Then he said the data on my file in GM's system was screwy and seemed very serious as the problems required speaking with the engineers "immediately", who went on to tell him that the problems outlined on my cars file were meant for a traverse and.. some other vehicle... not a Camaro..

*shrug*

Either way.... no thanks to the dealer.. I figured it out, and the cars in the garage for the next 3 weeks while I wait on an exhaust replacement after having been at the dealership for the past 2 weeks.  My cars literally been in the dealership and the garage more than half the time I've owned it.  --- P.S not sure what they did to it, but it sounds even worse than it did before I brought it to them. I didn't think that was possible.

I'm not all that car suave... so I owe my findings to a  few forums and the wealth of info & contacts available on them.

Big thumbs down for this dealership and this car experience so far.

Grocery list of other problems I have to go get checked out....  Buddy of mine who has the same car.. is having every single issue I've encountered as well.

Fun car, and looks great.. I love it..   Wish I wasn't running into so many problems though.

Definately the nicest looking ornament in my garage. Wish the quality was as good as it looks.

[Mayhem]

PS probably a long-shot on this forum, but if anyone here happens to have a GM vehicle and has a good dealership.. I am certainly needing some recomendations...  Having no luck at the ones I've tried.

[ReD~DrAgOn]

GoldKey Pontiac was pretty good to us with our 05 Gradprix GT

[DKaz]

That sucks dude... at least your car is fast and looks cool, but just a reminder that Government Motors is far from getting their act together

[hatchattack3]

U try the one on lougheed and willghnton the one right by the Brentwood skytrain station , I've never been there but they got tons of cameros there maybe they could help u more then the dealership your going to right now?

[derrick]

Sounds like the cost of being an early adopter. Kinda like iPhone 4 users with bad reception and yellow screens. But glad to hear things are getting sorted out now.

[hatchattack3]

i guess everything new has its kinks  to work out :/

[Mayhem]

I think goldkey got shutdown last month. GM sent a letter advising us that Goldkey is no longer a licensed GM associate or something.

- Definately paying the price of jumping in there early... Jumped in late enough to dodge a few major issues, but I guess not long enough.

Haven't tried the one on lo/willingdon... Maybe I'll try to find some reviews or check it out. I forgot about it, but I remember there being a lot of Camaro's on the lot there too when I was driving up to SFU.

That said... my dealership has atleast a dozen Camaro's outside....  hehe Obviously not helping them any.


Ahh.. the other issue I'm having... is atleast not GM's fault.. nor the Camaro's fault.. but is Camaro related.
That custom hood I ordered forever ago... I still haven't recieved all the parts for it.. And the company promised me a refund if the last piece they sent didn't arrive the next day...for all the BS i've been thru with them. it arrived over a week late.. Sent me a mail telling me to call them about the refund... and they started dodging my calls and ignoring my mails...   what a deadbeat company...   So I've got a thousand dollar incomplete hood sitting around taking up lots of space. Has been nearly a year trying to resolve this.   Longer than I've had the Camaro. Another stupid mistake on my behalf and lesson learned.  I'm not so upset about a refund for the week late... more so for... the whole freakin year!!...   Nothing should take that long to be sent out.. especially when my CC was charged immediately. (and over-charged at that).   Companies based out of Michigan I believe.. not sure what my options are this far along.. Too late for a reversal of charges through the CC company.   In it's current state though, the hood isn't even functional since they didn't send me any of the underside ducting.