My fight with ICBC

[Username]

I thought I would create a dedicated thread & diary on my situation with ICBC regarding the vandalism that occurred to my 2008 Volkswagen GTI.

Please note, I am not looking for sympthany or condolences. No one is dead. It's just a car and the only thing I'm losing is money. If anything I'm hoping that people understand how diligent they have to be in dealing with ICBC.

In addition I'm hoping to educate people on a little known method of compensating people who have had their vehicles damaged extensively. I have been working with a gentlemen who runs "The Car Whisperer". He is an advocate for Accelerated Depreciation compensation and also provides loss of value reports in these cases. Accelerated depreciation is compensation to motorists who have at no fault of their own experienced sizeable damage to their vehicles but have not had them written off. As most people are aware, the market generally devalues vehicles that have sizeable declarations. Accelerated depreciation is meant to compensate these people for lost value upon sale of their vehicles. In an accelerated depreciation case, the motorist can sue the guilty motorist for the damage caused. ICBC, being the insurer, will compensate the plaintiff as they are responsible for insuring the defendant too. A precedent has been set in the case of Signorello v. Khan. Unfortunately, it appears that in my case I cannot get accelerated depreciation compensation as I cannot name another party to sue.

Here's my story to date:

June 15th – Game 7 of Stanley Cup Finals. Park at River Rock Skytrain Station and meet friends downtown (Robson & Cordova) to watch game. Have drinks. Sleep at friend’s place.  Leave vehicle there overnight.

June 16th – Friend and I go to retrieve GTI. Vehicle has been vandalized extensively:















Damage to naked eye:

• Windshield, rear hatch, driver and passenger windows smashed.
• Dent to rear hatch
• Sunroof caved in. Foot prints all over roof of vehicle
• Passenger side headlight and front bumper damage
• Rear driver’s side bumper damage
• Unable to determine interior damage (too much glass)
• Unable to determine paint damage.
• Rear hatch will not open to retrieve contents

June 16th – ICBC contacted. Police report filed with Richmond RCMP. Rusty’s towing contacted to tow vehicle.

June 16th - That evening, River Rock Casino security is contacted to review footage. Speak with Wayne M. who agrees to review. Two hours later call is returned. Cannot see anything because lot is unlit in evening.

June 16th – ICBC issues statement that riot-related claims will be expedited.

June 21st – I contact ICBC asking about the status of my claim. I am given the contact of Robert B, estimator for ICBC. I leave message with Robert B.

June 22st – Robert B, ICBC estimator calls indicating the damage is currently estimated at $5300. I ask him to detail the estimate. Front bumper damage is not included. He indicates it appears to be from a separate incident. I advise that the vehicle was for sale and in mint condition and that the damage is a result of vandalism that evening. He agrees to include it into the estimate. I ask that the vehicle be sent to OpenRoad Richmond Auto Body for repairs.

June 28th - Richmond Auto Body calls indicating all parts for the vehicle have been ordered and that the repair has been approved for 21 days. Expected return of the vehicle is Mid-July. I am told the repairs are estimated at $13,082.53, 137% higher than the initial estimate.

June 28th - Called and left message with Robert B asking how the estimate has gone up so drastically and whether it was considered to write the vehicle off.

July 4th – Called Robert B again and left message regarding status of my claim.

July 7th – Contact ICBC dial-a-claim line (604) 520-8222 and explain lack of response from estimator. I am given the number of Cory M, manager of estimator Robert B. Agent indicates that 21 days of work have been approved for my vehicle & that Robert B contacted the body shop to ask for more photographs of the vehicle. Left message with Cory M.

July 8th, Spoke with Cory M, manager of estimator Robert B regarding lack of return calls from Robert B. He apologized for the failed return calls. Not happy with the poor customer service offered by Robert B.

He explains that no Accelerated Depreciation is available in this case as there is no other party to go after. Agrees that I will suffer loss of at least $3-4000 when selling the vehicle as a result of the declaration.
Explains that estimate went up drastically because estimator was not able to “see” paint damage well enough in facility. Threshold for repairs to write-off vehicle is $18,000. In calculating this, vehicle is valued at $25,000 based on “market research”.   I indicate that my vehicle did not sell for a month when priced at $21,000. He explains that my car not selling at $21,000 is indicative of market timing, not valuation of vehicle.

I explain my frustration with ICBC’s customer service in light of their response that vehicles vandalized on the night of the riot would have their claims expedited. I explain that I feel I have been cornered into having the car repaired now due to lack of response from Robert B. I indicate that upon discovering a $13,000 repair bill I called Robert B for a reply to no avail. He apologizes once again for lack of customer service. I ask him to review the valuation used to determine my vehicle’s write-off threshold and re-iterate my car would not sell at $21,000.

To be continued....

  Kev

[oracle]

Damn kev. I know how frustrating this can be.

Back in 2000 I had my camry written off due to a flooding incident (no fault of my own) and was raped on insurance premiums because of the way i answered 1 question on dial a claim.

I took ICBC to court (it took 2 years) and ICBC had 4 lawyers and 2 professional witness.

I got screwed. So I eneded up paying back ICBC for my car ($5000) so my insurance would go back to the 10% discount I had, instead of the 300+% surcharge that would have made my insurance almost $8000 for 1 year.

FUCK ICBC. I lawyer up everytime I have an ICBC claim or incident. I know it doesnt help much now, but next time, lawyer up. You will deal with differnt adjusters/managers etc that ICBC has set aside for those with lawyers.

When my brand new Outty was involved in a hit and run, i lawyered up, and got my suv back in 9 days start to finish (Half of the car was repainted and rear door was replaced).

It cost me nothing to retain my lawyer, just needed to give their name to ICBC and all billing wass submitted to ICBC and paid by them.

It sounds like your adjuster, and I have some experiance (camry - write off, teggy - accident then write off, prelude - vandalism (2) theft (2) accident, yamaha - vandalism, chevy s10 - theft (2), civic - accident, mazda 3 (repaint), Outlander - hit and run. Fuck thats a long list for 14 years of driving.

The only one I didnt have a lawyer for was the camry, the only one I got fucked on.

All the adjusters, esp the last one for the outty and mazda were the nicest and prompt people i have met in ICBC. They went above and beyond, even suggesting to include previous damage and wear n tear issues to be included in the fixes.

I feel for you Kev and sorry about the long reply, but ICBC gets my blood boiling.

[Username]

Todd, can you PM with the lawyer/how it worked?

  Kev

[oracle]

Todd, can you PM with the lawyer/how it worked?

  Kev

Yes.

[Username]

July 8 - Cory M calls again after reviewing the figures used for my vehicle. He admits a mistake was made in determining the salvage value of my vehicle. Because the damage is cosmetic it would be valued closer to 30% of it's value as opposed to the 20% originally used. In reviewing advertisements, he still sticks to the $25,000 valuation for the vehicle. Even if the vehicle were to be valued at $21,000, the threshold for writing the car off would be $16,400. He goes on to allude that to me that when the vehicle is sold if I feel I have suffered a loss of value to explore my options then.

I don't really know where to go with this from here.

  Kev

[oracle]

July 8 - Cory M calls again after reviewing the figures used for my vehicle. He admits a mistake was made in determining the salvage value of my vehicle. Because the damage is cosmetic it would be valued closer to 30% of it's value as opposed to the 20% originally used. In reviewing advertisements, he still sticks to the $25,000 valuation for the vehicle. Even if the vehicle were to be valued at $21,000, the threshold for writing the car off would be $16,400. He goes on to allude that to me that when the vehicle is sold if I feel I have suffered a loss of value to explore my options then.

I don't really know where to go with this from here.

  Kev

pm sent.

i would slashed the interior to shit, that woulda made it a write off. lol

[MS3Pilot]

Kev,

I had a good friend who was involved in an incident in his vehicle (mistaken identity) where he was rammed, shot at, etc etc. The vehicle was deemed repairable but he told them to repair it, and keep it or sell it. In no circumstance was he interested in having the vehicle returned to him. He had an identical argument about writeoff threshold and in the end ICBC wrote him a cheque for the value of the vehicle as they determined it to be. Make sure you keep fighting it. No sense getting screwed as a result of the riot! He had no lawyer, but insisted they keep the car and he never wanted to see the thing again. The result may have had something to do with being shot in the process...but the basics are all too similar!

Pete

[M Speed]

Is the car being repaired as we speak? The resson I ask this is ICBC won't pay for the repairs and write-off the car. If the repairs can be put on hold, you can continue to argue over writre-off or repair. This is a game of time...luckily you have a set of wheels to go around so you are not rushed to make a decision.

[chopstickz]

keep fighting Kev! Whole BCMazda3 is behind you!

[Username]

As far as I know the car is currently being repaired however I haven't called to check up on it. That being said, upon discovering the cost of the repairs I called my estimator ASAP to determine what has happened. Due to his negligence in failing to contact me, the repair has gone forward.

I will have to discuss with a lawyer how I want to proceed with the situation.

  Kev

[banjaboy]

Log on to CBC and go to "Marketplace" there is a half hour show abouut accelerated depreciation. The only place in North America that recognizes it is Georgia. watch the show, there is a guy here on the Lower Mainland who had his brand new Charger or some such rear ended. After repairs it was worth $10,000 resale less than a car with no damage. His wife was driving and was totally not at fault. The only way to deal with this depreciation is to get it appraised after repairs and get an estimate of what the repaired vehicle is worth compared to no damage, then ICBC should issue a cheque, they wont. In Georgia they do. anyway, good luck, watch the show and maybe contact the guy who is fighting ICBC. Its a bloody shame your nice car was damaged. you can only hope for  Karma and hope the wankers that did it will some day have lives and things they like and then hope some asshole destroys their stuff, damn shame my friend.......

[banjaboy]

Just re read all the threads username. The trouble with ICBC its you against them. When we had private insurance your company would go to bat against the other company, the procedure took longer but you really had someone on your side. But in this case, I dont think it would help. but on the positive side, you took it to a great shop, the repairs are guaranteed for life. Keep your pictures and when you sell, show the buyer the damage. Its really severe cosmetic damage, not like a bent frame. It wouldn't personally put me off from buying your car but that being said its just the SHITS that they are jerking you around, a complete innocent, damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I would call a lawyer, this is a circumstance that is very very rare, there may be some redress throught the courts. Please keep us all updated. SHIT!!!

[M Speed]

Could you put a hold on the repair? Is this $13k damage all there is?

[jimmy]

oracle, got more details in terms of getting a lawyer whenever i have a claim with ICBC?

reason i ask is because i've been involved in several incidents where i was at no fault of my own, there IS another party to sue but the damages on my car were minimal anyways

i wanted to ask because in case something happens again later on where it involves large damages, i dont wanna be screwed

i always thought that getting a lawyer would cost me a big sum of money so i never explored that option
any tips/guides would be greatly appricated in terms of who/what kind of lawyer to look for

[oracle]

oracle, got more details in terms of getting a lawyer whenever i have a claim with ICBC?

reason i ask is because i've been involved in several incidents where i was at no fault of my own, there IS another party to sue but the damages on my car were minimal anyways

i wanted to ask because in case something happens again later on where it involves large damages, i dont wanna be screwed

i always thought that getting a lawyer would cost me a big sum of money so i never explored that option
any tips/guides would be greatly appricated in terms of who/what kind of lawyer to look for

ill pm u in the next day or so

[dirtychoncho]

Kev sorry to hear about your car and the trouble with ICBC. Hopefully a lawyer can help get a more favourable resolution.

[Matsuda]

Hey Kev, what lawyer are you using for your case? A coworker's son is in a similar situation and he asked me for a lawyer that does this kind of stuff.

[Username]

Bill we will discuss tonight.

  Kev

[Matsuda]

sounds good

[Username]

I got my car back yesterday. Richmond Auto Body did a great job on it. That being said, the final repair is at $13,700 (and possibly a bit more as I had the tech repair something while I was there).

I just did all the math associated with whether the vehicle should have been written off:

ICBC Calculation
Vehicle Value = $25000
HST = $3000
Total Replacement Value = $28,000.

Salvage value at 22% = $5500

Net Cost = $22,500.

Writeoff threshold was 80% of this net cost = $18,000 (Per Cory M. at ICBC).


As I had the car for sale prior to the incident for a month and couldn't sell it at $21k, a more realistic view of the car's value:

Market Value
      
Vehicle Value = $21000
HST = $2520
Total Replacement Value = $23,520

Salvage value at 30% = $6300 (Cory admitted to me that they had made a mistake on the salvage value percentage and that it should have been closer to 30% because the vehicle damage was cosmetic)

Net Cost = $17,220

Writeoff threshold at 80% of this net cost = $13,776.00

My total cost of repairs. $13,772.30 (I had my cupholder repaired yesterday as well, so the tech time may be applied to my billing).

I will be filing a complaint with the Fairness Commissioner regarding the lack of service, mysterious calculations and how I was cornered into taking the vehicle back as a result of the repairs being nearly wholly completed before receiving contact from ICBC.

  Kev