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Author Topic: The beginning of the end of America  (Read 1411 times)
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Keiichi
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« on: October 21, 2006, 10:33:43 AM »

Finally, a journalist is willing to speak his/her mind without holding back.



'Beginning of the end of America'
Olbermann addresses the Military Commissions Act in a special comment
SPECIAL COMMENT
By Keith Olbermann
Anchor, 'Countdown'
Countdown


Updated: 12:00 p.m. PT Oct 19, 2006
We have lived as if in a trance.

We have lived as people in fear.

And now?our rights and our freedoms in peril?we slowly awaken to learn that we have been afraid of the wrong thing.

Therefore, tonight have we truly become the inheritors of our American legacy.

For, on this first full day that the Military Commissions Act is in force, we now face what our ancestors faced, at other times of exaggerated crisis and melodramatic fear-mongering:

A government more dangerous to our liberty, than is the enemy it claims to protect us from.

We have been here before?and we have been here before, led here by men better and wiser and nobler than George W. Bush.

We have been here when President John Adams insisted that the Alien and Sedition Acts were necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use those acts to jail newspaper editors. 

American newspaper editors, in American jails, for things they wrote about America.

We have been here when President Woodrow Wilson insisted that the Espionage Act was necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use that Act to prosecute 2,000 Americans, especially those he disparaged as ?Hyphenated Americans,? most of whom were guilty only of advocating peace in a time of war.

American public speakers, in American jails, for things they said about America.


And we have been here when President Franklin D. Roosevelt insisted that Executive Order 9066 was necessary to save American lives, only to watch him use that order to imprison and pauperize 110,000 Americans while his man in charge, General DeWitt, told Congress: ?It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen?he is still a Japanese.?

American citizens, in American camps, for something they neither wrote nor said nor did, but for the choices they or their ancestors had made about coming to America.

Each of these actions was undertaken for the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

And each was a betrayal of that for which the president who advocated them claimed to be fighting.

Adams and his party were swept from office, and the Alien and Sedition Acts erased.

Many of the very people Wilson silenced survived him, and one of them even ran to succeed him, and got 900,000 votes, though his presidential campaign was conducted entirely from his jail cell.

And Roosevelt?s internment of the Japanese was not merely the worst blight on his record, but it would necessitate a formal apology from the government of the United States to the citizens of the United States whose lives it ruined.


The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

In times of fright, we have been only human.

We have let Roosevelt?s ?fear of fear itself? overtake us.

We have listened to the little voice inside that has said, ?the wolf is at the door; this will be temporary; this will be precise; this too shall pass.?

We have accepted that the only way to stop the terrorists is to let the government become just a little bit like the terrorists.

Just the way we once accepted that the only way to stop the Soviets was to let the government become just a little bit like the Soviets.

Or substitute the Japanese.

Or the Germans.

Or the Socialists.

Or the Anarchists.

Or the Immigrants.

Or the British.

Or the Aliens.

The most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

And, always, always wrong.


?With the distance of history, the questions will be narrowed and few: Did this generation of Americans take the threat seriously, and did we do what it takes to defeat that threat??

Wise words.

And ironic ones, Mr. Bush.

Your own, of course, yesterday, in signing the Military Commissions Act.

You spoke so much more than you know, Sir.

Sadly?of course?the distance of history will recognize that the threat this generation of Americans needed to take seriously was you.

We have a long and painful history of ignoring the prophecy attributed to Benjamin Franklin that ?those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.?

But even within this history we have not before codified the poisoning of habeas corpus, that wellspring of protection from which all essential liberties flow.

You, sir, have now befouled that spring.

You, sir, have now given us chaos and called it order.

You, sir, have now imposed subjugation and called it freedom.

For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

And ? again, Mr. Bush ? all of them, wrong.

We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who has said it is unacceptable to compare anything this country has ever done to anything the terrorists have ever done.

We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who has insisted again that ?the United States does not torture. It?s against our laws and it?s against our values? and who has said it with a straight face while the pictures from Abu Ghraib Prison and the stories of Waterboarding figuratively fade in and out, around him.

We have handed a blank check drawn against our freedom to a man who may now, if he so decides, declare not merely any non-American citizens ?unlawful enemy combatants? and ship them somewhere?anywhere --  but may now, if he so decides, declare you an ?unlawful enemy combatant? and ship you somewhere - anywhere.

And if you think this hyperbole or hysteria, ask the newspaper editors when John Adams was president or the pacifists when Woodrow Wilson was president or the Japanese at Manzanar when Franklin Roosevelt was president.

And if you somehow think habeas corpus has not been suspended for American citizens but only for everybody else, ask yourself this: If you are pulled off the street tomorrow, and they call you an alien or an undocumented immigrant or an ?unlawful enemy combatant??exactly how are you going to convince them to give you a court hearing to prove you are not? Do you think this attorney general is going to help you?


This President now has his blank check.

He lied to get it.

He lied as he received it.

Is there any reason to even hope he has not lied about how he intends to use it nor who he intends to use it against?

?These military commissions will provide a fair trial,? you told us yesterday, Mr. Bush, ?in which the accused are presumed innocent, have access to an attorney and can hear all the evidence against them.?

"Presumed innocent," Mr. Bush?

The very piece of paper you signed as you said that, allows for the detainees to be abused up to the point just before they sustain ?serious mental and physical trauma? in the hope of getting them to incriminate themselves, and may no longer even invoke The Geneva Conventions in their own defense.

"Access to an attorney," Mr. Bush?

Lieutenant Commander Charles Swift said on this program, Sir, and to the Supreme Court, that he was only granted access to his detainee defendant on the promise that the detainee would plead guilty.

"Hearing all the evidence," Mr. Bush?

The Military Commissions Act specifically permits the introduction of classified evidence not made available to the defense.

Your words are lies, Sir.

They are lies that imperil us all.

?One of the terrorists believed to have planned the 9/11 attacks,? you told us yesterday, ?said he hoped the attacks would be the beginning of the end of America.?

That terrorist, sir, could only hope.

Not his actions, nor the actions of a ceaseless line of terrorists (real or imagined), could measure up to what you have wrought.

Habeas corpus? Gone.

The Geneva Conventions? Optional.

The moral force we shined outwards to the world as an eternal beacon, and inwards at ourselves as an eternal protection? Snuffed out.

These things you have done, Mr. Bush, they would be ?the beginning of the end of America.?

And did it even occur to you once, sir ? somewhere in amidst those eight separate, gruesome, intentional, terroristic invocations of the horrors of 9/11 -- that with only a little further shift in this world we now know?just a touch more repudiation of all of that for which our patriots died --- did it ever occur to you once that in just 27 months and two days from now when you leave office, some irresponsible future president and a ?competent tribunal? of lackeys would be entitled, by the actions of your own hand, to declare the status of ?unlawful enemy combatant? for -- and convene a Military Commission to try -- not John Walker Lindh, but George Walker Bush?

For the most vital, the most urgent, the most inescapable of reasons.

And doubtless, Sir, all of them?as always?wrong.

? 2006 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15321167/from/RS.5/

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sanmaz3_84
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2006, 10:36:26 AM »

wow! just wow, great article!
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2006, 11:25:16 AM »

Sad but true.  The blank cheque was given to Bush at 9/11.  Looking at all that has been said and done, one cannot help but wonder who actually initiated the 9/11 event.
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2006, 12:22:58 PM »

1 in 5 canadians believe that 911 was a conspiracy, staged by the gov itself.

No wonder why people have doubts and frankly the evidence is very shaky.

I mean they found passports of passengers of the plane but couldnt find black box that is ment to withstand anything.
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« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2006, 12:28:52 PM »

1 in 5 canadians believe that 911 was a conspiracy, staged by the gov itself.

No wonder why people have doubts and frankly the evidence is very shaky.

I mean they found passports of passengers of the plane but couldnt find black box that is ment to withstand anything.

Thats me mang! All has to go back to controling resources and territory! Watch this video called the corporation....kinda about the whole trans-national corportations of the world and governments....DAMN BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2006, 02:04:41 PM »

Well I don't believe the black box was designed to handle the implosion and collapse of the towers and the huge amount of steel and concrete that pulverised and basically disintegrated almost everything.

I believe that what we saw, was what happened. (ie. planes hitting the building), but I do believe that Bush and Co. had a hand in either just letting it happen, or even somehow assisting.

What Republican president didn't use War as a method to hold on to power?  Remember, prior to 9/11, Bush wasn't liked by the majority of Americans and were complaining about the White House....then 9/11 came and that was what he needed to stay in office...and to start the baseless Iraq war.
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« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2006, 04:13:15 PM »

I'm still waiting to see how he'll ban online poker  Grin
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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2006, 04:21:42 PM »

Well, he can't ban online poker.

He can make it functionally difficult/impossible for US players to play.

Back on topic:
- though conspiracy theories are fun and interesting, I cannot believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy (though I WANT to believe Smiley ).

Aside from this, I am disheartened by the measures that the current US administration has taken in the name of "National Security".  I am also disappointed in the fact that the Canadian government has not taken measures to protect Canadian citizens against the reach of ridiculous laws like the Patriot Act. (in this case, Canadian personal data is processed by a US defense contractor - and the Patriot Act basically allows the US gov't the ability to requisition these records)....


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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2006, 07:11:02 PM »

I think that the government was involved in 9/11 somehow.  They knew it was coming, they saw signs, but never took actions on them.  The whole thing about the Pentagon is still crazy.  There was absolutely no sign of a huge plane there, and the camera there just didn't do justice, though it did look like what was recorded was not even close to the size of a large plane.  As for the black boxes, I would think they would have either withstood the attacks, or atleast pieces could have been found.  It will always be a mystery, until someone 50-100 years from now finally reveals what really happened.  By then, everyone will just forget about it and it will just be another piece of history that everyone has moved on from.
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2006, 08:01:00 PM »

This is no different than the JFK murder, IMO.  Keep everything under wraps until everyone has forgotten or those who were involved have passed away.  So very sad...
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« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2006, 08:22:02 PM »

http://www.911inplanesite.com/

BT it, emule it, or use whatever u use.

watch for yourself.
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« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2006, 11:52:33 PM »

I am sure they wont reveal their dirty hand even after 200 years. The countries they attacked would go crazy and attack them, if there is any usa left by that time.

usa might break up like the soviet union did, who knows.

All i know is, what goes around, comes around. And it will come around hard.
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2006, 12:00:21 AM »

There's a problem though.  When it does come around, the citizens will be the ones who are hurt in the process.  Not the government and the decision makers...
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2006, 12:16:08 AM »

We can already see it comming around for bush who enjoyed total support from the world after 911.? Right now, his approval rating is ~23% in his country and most of the other counties in the world hate him. This clearly shows people have realized bush is a dumb ass and his party is a collection of war mongers. The republicans have lost a lot of their credibility and i will doubt the republicans with their neo con ideology will be elected again.

In history books these wars will be remembered as illegal and baseless wars that were caused by a dumb president who didn't win them and make america hated though out the world.

IMO it has already come around for bush as there is not much time left in his presidency and all he wants now is for his name to be remembered nicely, which wont happen.
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« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2006, 12:36:05 AM »

Let's just hope that he won't do anything "stupid" in order to get re-elected again...
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2006, 12:39:46 AM »

Maybe he'll attack Canada in an attempt to turn it into one giant State!
Then he'll force us all to vote for him!!
That would be scary...
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2006, 12:49:26 AM »

lol... the United States will not break up like the Soviet Union did.

The Soviet Union was short lived and was imploded by its communist regime. Yes, the European Union is trying to overthrow America's influence in the world, but it also relies too heavily on it to let it destabilize.

Seems like all the beef against Bush has been mainly against how he handled the war in Iraq. Guess what, Roosevelt faced harsher criticisms when he decided to join WWII. Truman faced even harsher criticisms after the atomic bombs were dropped. Imagine what the world would be like if America decided to stay out of WWII. The disapproval rate for Americans for America to join WWII was some odd 93%. But no one at the time knew they were fighting a crucial part of the history. Personally, I would withhold all judgement regarding the topic until we can look back and reflect on it. And have the Chinese forgot about such thing as the Nanking Msacre? And what would be left of France if America decided to be indifferent between going to war.

Surely, many Americans do not care about Nazi occupation in France. After all, intellectuals like Keith Olbermann shows regret of WWII. You better bet your asses too that Americans really don't give a damn about Chinese getting slaughtered by Japanese. Really, I am sure that many agrees with Keith Olbermann on the issue.
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2006, 01:28:40 AM »

Tsheik - I know you're young and so you probably don't "remember" the failure of the Soviet Union.  anyways, the Soviet Union was a very different political animal than the US - you may wish to read up on this.

Silvia:
The circumstances between Roosevelt and WWII, and Bush and Iraq are very different. 

True, the US did not want to join WWII but it was forced to by an attack by another sovereign nation.
In Iraq, the US is the aggressor nation against a state which has been relatively docile over the past few years.

Though you are correct that that only time will really tell who was "right" and who was "wrong" but if you ask me, the war in Iraq is much closer to Vietnam than it is the Pacific.

I'm not sure why you are referring to the Nanking Massacre here.  Please elaborate.
I also don't see how Olbermann regrets WWII - rather he seems to have reservation over some of the actions of the government at the time.
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2006, 01:53:03 AM »

I know I will get flamed for this, but this is how I feel.

For starter, Saddam tried to assassinate Bush Senior during his trip to Kuwait in 93. The whole world knew about this. Bush senior had all the right reasons to wage war on him, but he didn't. This is among a long list of reasons why Bush overthrew Saddam. Saddam encouraged suicide bombers to attack Israelis by offering him $25,000USD. Now, do those sound docile to anyone?

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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2006, 03:04:49 AM »

The idea of overthrowing Saddam is fine and dandy, because no one can deny that he was a crazy mofo and sadistic as well.  BUT, you cannot overthrow a government and go into war and plan with BEST CASE scenarios and without and real plan to keep the region stable.  The US (more specifically the neo-cons) expected people to welcome them with flowers and jump for joy and join democracy!!!....but, what's democracy without the culture of tolerance and understanding?  Without the people embracing democractic values, democracy cannot prevail, no matter how hard you try to force it upon people.

Back when Saddam was in power, he was able to keep the region under control.  He hated islamic fundamentalist and was able to keep them out of his country.  His presence also added stability to the region, as Iraq was still considered a power in that region.  On a more microscopic level, women had jobs, women didn't have to cover themselves up, women didn't have to worry about honor killings, there was the infrastructure for water, electricity etc...
Now what do we have over there?  Islamic fundamentalism has taken over, women no longer can do anything.  The infrastructure is in shambles, and guess what....most countries in that region are now kowtowing to Iran, a country that the US has no control at all over.  At least Iraq, the US was keeping them in check.

People aren't only complaining about Bush, because of his actions in Iraq.  It is his entire presidency.  From the crazy legislation that takes away the basic freedoms and rights of citizens, to his lies and obvious blunders in Iraq.  Look at Afghanistan, most of the world supported the war in Afghanistan, because Al Qaeda admitted to the 9/11 attacks AND the Taliban admitted to sheltering them and not letting anyone get to them. 

Then comes Iraq....do you remember the original reasons?  WMD....oh can't find any......Iraq link to Al Qaeda....oh that was found to be false.......ummmm.....I got it!  It's to liberate the people and spread democracy....!!  That is why most of the World doesn't like Bush.  We knew he was lying and he still tried to treat his allies like chumps.  And worse, he was voted back in by Americans....the World started to hate Americans themselves.....

Do you even know how retarded the idea of a "pre-emptive strike" is?  Would you another nation to launch nuclear bombs into the US as a "pre-emptive strike" because it's obvious that the US will invade any country it wants?

Oh and about WWII.  Americans definitely helped in the war effort, but it seems like movies or North American history books have kinda brainwashed people here.  Some people think (especially Americans) that they swooped in and because OF THEM, they won the war....but you know...they joined the war so late...it's really IN SPITE of them the allies won the war.  Without the blunder by Hitler into Russia, the war would've continued on.

Oh yes, D-Day...great ol' d-day.  Storming the beach of Normandy.......but you know before that, was Dieppe!..All Canadian forces (of course under British command), was sent to storm the beach......it was a massacre...but you don't think that intelligence played an important part in D-Day?  Or how about Juno beach?  All Canadian contingent storms the beach successfully....and just because it wasn't as bad as Omaha, it doesn't get any publicity?

Ugh..I'm gonna stop now.....
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